One of the new words I learned when I arrived in New Zealand was “gobsmacked”. It means being utterly astounded, completely surprised. I think it's of British origin, but wherever it comes from, it's not something I ever encountered in Middle America.
But that's the way it is when you move far away, and especially to a new country: You learn new words and phrases, encounter new traditions and ideas, new ways of doing things and new attitudes. Sometimes that can be pretty bewildering, but for me it's been all good.
So I was gobsmacked to watch the news tonight and learn of an American expat living in Christchurch who's set up a website to, well, trash New Zealand. Okay, that's not actually their stated goal, but it's the end result. Contributors call New Zealanders uncouth, racist, bigoted—the litany of complaints goes on and on.
What's the deal? How can my experience be completely the opposite of theirs? There are a number of explanations.
First, Christchurch. It has a lot of unflattering nicknames, the “whitest city in New Zealand”, the “most English city” (by which they mean stuffy, uptight and, well, racist). Like all stereotypes, there's an element of truth: Christchurch has long had a problem with racist skinheads, for example. But it's also a city in which the central electorate is represented by an MP who's a gay man and an English immigrant.
Next, there's cultural misunderstanding. The humour in this part of the world is far more direct than Americans are accustomed to—in fact, many Americans find it bitchy and become easily insulted. It's easy to assume that this humour reveals a darker attitude that it simply doesn't.
There's also the possibility of lack of preparation, such as research, and many of the contributors to that site admit this. But it's equally possible that some of them simply were never cut out to be immigrants in the first place—not here, possibly not anywhere. There's no shame in that, but a little more careful research might have helped prevent their obvious unhappiness.
I cannot stress strongly enough that my experience is nothing like these people have apparently had. But that doesn't mean that I don't see problems. There certainly is prejudice based on race or ethnicity, especially against Asians, Maori and Pacific Islanders. But in my experience even this isn't commonplace. I come from a land where racism is rife. I know it when I see it, and I've simply never seen true racism in New Zealand.
In the end, I think that it comes down to the “space” someone is in: When one is unhappy, possibly bitter or angry, too, it's not easy to see the world in anything but a negative way: Negativity tends to breed more of the same. Believe me, I know about that, too.
My advice to anyone contemplating becoming an expat is: Be real, do hard research, and look for reasons not to emigrate. If your desire survives all that, you may be on to something. And remember that if you find expat sites filled with people who are overly positive or overly negative, that site is unlikely to give you a realistic view of your chosen home. On that one thing, I do agree with that negative site: Let the buyer beware. If you are, you're more likely to make the right choice and you'll leave no one gobsmacked—including yourself.
15 comments:
Christchurch. Sounds like a bad place indeed. Hmm...sounds interesting nonetheless.
I'm actually a member on that site. There's a lot of history behind the site, and I think the most important thing is: don't believe everything you see on TV.
Number one - don't believe that "Move2NZ" is a perfect site for immigrants - the owners of that site have begun to filter/delete negative comments to the point that members felt a need to start their own site.
The good thing about the new site is that they are VERY open to hearing about positive immigration experiences. I joined to tell our positive story, and they were quite happy to read it and ask more questions about what we did to make our experience different (#1: don't move to Christchurch!)
The site has now gotten a lot of new members - many who have been rude and others who want to bitch and moan. There are several who just want to get a full picture, though, and so I will stay on the site to continue to give the positive side of immigration.
Moving to NZ is definitely not going to make anyone's life "perfect." The whole grass-is-greener notion is seen by a lot of potential immigrants on some other sites we've visited, and often comes crashing to earth when they move here and realize NZ isn't paved in gold and full of smiling cherubs -- it's just like anywhere else. If you're unhappy in one country, you'll probably be unhappy here, too. Unfortunately many people spend a lot of time and money to find that out.
...Just out of curiousity, what is that website?
Kalvin: When I was a little boy, I used to see Christchurch on the map of this place called New ZEAL land and I thought it was all religious freaks. Couldn't have been more wrong.
Dawn: I'm so glad you commented! I was wondering what you thought about it all, especially because I knew you'd had experience with expat sites.
My initial reaction was based primarily on the attitude of the woman they were showing on TV, who to me seemed pretty arrogant. Then I read some of the posts and was appalled by the negativity and, at least sometimes, what I thought was ignorance. That's the background to this post.
I actually don't know much about expat sites; since the Interwebs were still in their infancy when I moved to NZ I never used them. So I'll take your word for it that Move2NZ isn't very good. The site I complained about implies that Move2NZ's removal of negative comments is because it's funded by the government.
I'm glad you're on the site to provide some balance. I suppose I should do the same--better to light a candle than curse the darkness, and all that. But for right now, I think I'd better stick to what I'm doing.
Nik: I completely agree.
I suppose things were different for me because I didn't choose New Zealand: I chose Nigel, and New Zealand came along for the ride (later I did choose New Zealand, of course). So, maybe because I had no expectations, I didn't risk disappointment.
And of course people should have the benefit of a complete picture. To me, the news reports made it seem as if the site went to the extreme end. You may be able to see last night's news report and the interview on Breakfast this morning on the TVNZ website.
I didn't provide a link to the site (called Expat Exposed, which is a dot com, not dot co dot nz) because I was concerned that I might get hit with a lot of negative comments or attacks (through Google searches). I guess we'll see if putting their name in a comment will do the same.
I finally got a chance to check that site out. It does sound a bit whiny and negative but there's a place for that. Immigration consulting is big business and I'm sure plenty of folks are mislead.
Coming from the US I haven't been exposed to whatever 'come to NZ from the UK everything is great here' adverts these folks seem to have been but I doubt I'd feel the way these folks seem to in either case -- the move has been extraordinarily difficult and rewarding but I'm not sure how to blame the govt or others for the downsides.
I got a lot of good info and posted a bit on Move2NZ but drifted off after it started getting weird. I can completely understand these people feeling the need to start up a different site. The Move2NZ folks appear well meaning but they're way too invested in the commercial success of the venture and I'd bet it causes them to overthink. (Pure speculation on my part -- it just has all the earmarks of small business panic syndrome.)
and, if Dawn likes, it must be cool
oof, just spent a little too long reading through the posts on that site and I don't expect to be doing that again for a while -- a few nice spots but mostly lot's randomly directed anger and sadness
I'm the guy who built move2nz and it's still surprising that this situation has occurred.
A bit of background: move2nz has been running since early 2005 as a free service directly helping migrants from around the world.
The organisation is run to help people both overseas and in NZ to reduce the number of migration failures and is the only organisation actively and directly working to help people.
What we do:
- link people together with national and international gatherings (for example we spent Christmas Day at the beach with 55 members);
- provide good, balanced and real-life information
- run a national network of volunteers to directly help people already in NZ
- run a free walk-in centre open 5 days a week in Christchurch
- hold weekly coffee mornings to get newcomers up and running as fast as possible.
Now I ask you, why is that so bad?
Here are some definite facts:
1) move2nz has never received any funding from the NZ government.
2) move2nz is run by migrants for migrants and is entirely separate from any government control.
3) we have never filtered or edited posts unless they break site rules which are basically about good manners.
4) move2nz is a registered company but has always been run as a not-for-profit with all profits going back to providing free services.
5) the organisation is funded by:
- some sponsorship from vetted companies (such as Kiwibank) but is not controlled in any way by them
- some advertising
- a very small amount of commission made through telling members about good companies
- me contracting out my services as a web developer to keep things rolling
Personally I have no idea why the owner of the other site has started this crusade against us. They have painted a picture of lies and half-truths which is nothing like the reality but I still don't understand why.
Please take a look at both sites and make your own minds up.
Hey Mike, thanks for stopping by!
The things you say your site does sound all good to me and I agree--there's nothing bad about it.
As I said earlier, I migrated to New Zealand long before there were any expat/migrant sites (or many other sites, but that's another topic entirely). So, I have zero first-hand experience with such sites.
I have nothing against your site or its content. Obviously I can't recommend it, either, as a non-user, but I take you at your word about the structure of the site, its financial support and its editorial policies.
I have a big problem with excessive negativity, especially when it seems to be unfocused, ill-informed and even unfounded. That was why I reacted so strongly to "Expat Exposed".
I would like to know why the EE folks seem to, well, hate your site so much, but frankly finding out would probably take too much emotional investment, far more than I'm willing to give to what I consider to be a mainly negative venture.
As an outsider and bystander in all this, it seems to me that some people will inevitably drift away from sites like Move2NZ as their needs or circumstances change, and some of them will be bitter. That alone doesn't explain this near war, nor the apparent depth of feeling, but it's probably a factor.
In any case, thank you for presenting your side of the story. You're welcome to comment here at any time, and the EE people would be welcome, too, if they choose to comment. I completely agree with you that people need to make up their own minds and fostering debate is one way to help people do that.
Thanks Arthur,
I really appreciate having a place to speak out.
The site is indeed like a conveyor belt. People need it for a time and afterwards some people decide to stay and help others which is great, some disappear off to get on with their lives which is cool - we achieved our aim, and some don't get what they want for various reasons and feel bitter.
All of those people have information that is invaluable to others. I migrated over 7 years ago and although I deal with helping migrants every day there is nothing like talking to someone who has just done (or failed to do) what you'd like to do for real information.
Thanks again.
Mike
Hi, I'm the "arrogant woman". I have people who insist on e-mailing me all the critical/abusive/scary blog and forum posts made about me and ExEx, and since this is the third time yours has come up, I thought I'd finally come by.
Where to start?
First, a few personal facts in defense of my honor. I have 2 citizenships and have lived in 8 countries, so it's not the rude shock of international exposure that set me off.
Second, your perception of me on TV as arrogant. All I can say is, are you honestly confident you'll come across the way you want without prior talking-head experience, any second takes (or sleep, in case of my second show), and with a lot of cutting designed to make you look bad? BTW, it was Mike from move2nz who actually called TVNZ on us—Rawdon Christie was very clear about it, and he also had contact information that was available only to Mike. ExEx was only 3 weeks old at that point, not even a flicker on Google. The only fight here is one move2nz consistently picked with us.
Third, the purpose of the site. Speaking of spin, the very fact that you and bunch of people think our purpose is "to trash New Zealand" shows how warped the TVNZ coverage was. We're about giving the worst case scenario, a hard reality check, to migrants who want it. Since you think that poor research was to blame in the case of many people who are unhappy in NZ, surely we're in agreement.
And finally, the stark difference in your experience and mine. I have no way of knowing your ethnicity or others on this trackback who are also knocking ExEx, but I happen to be of Japanese descent. Some of the most "negative" and "bitter" people on ExEx are also Asian, African and Middle Eastern. It makes a difference. In case of Chch, it made a huge difference—Christchurch, where NZIS asked us to go by offering extra points. I used to live on 110th and Amsterdam in NYC, and I have never been harassed and menaced the way I was in Chch; in some ways, what was worse than the violence was the cold shoulder in regular social interactions. After the TV appearance, it got a lot worse. One of my co-founders had the address and phone number of his children's home posted. I had people I'd never met slyly posting about how they saw me and my husband walking around. A removed posting on a board offered money for my home or work address. Hate e-mails and postings poured in, and of course, there were blog posts like this one.
I'm now out of NZ. It wasn't the easiest thing financially, but we have no kids, and as tech people, we have a big international lifeline. Other people aren't so lucky, and most are still back there. I have a Korean acquaintance who's had to buy her 5th-form son yet another jacket, because other kids keep destroying it. They also call him "gook" and "ching chong" instead of his name; the teachers refuse to take it seriously. His parents are 'model minorities'; they keep their head down, work hard, and don't raise a stink. When anyone asks, they say they like New Zealand. But in private, they are disillusioned and scared, and blame themselves for not being able to get to Canada or the States. And as for their son, he's in pain and wants to escape.
So that's why we started Expat Exposed, and run it still despite the mostly thankless job it is. Otherwise, the 18 months of being taunted from cars and talked about like a piece of trash is going to curdle, and threaten to actually make me a bitter.
Agness, thank you so much for taking the time to post a comment. I sincerely appreciate it. I try and keep my blog a forum, and I welcome all viewpoints here.
First I should say that I didn't actually mean to imply that you personally are arrogant. I don't know you, after all. What I meant was that it was the way you came off on the interview. I completely agree that one's image on TV is created by the editors, and over the months since I posted this, I've seen increasing sloppiness and bias from TVNZ's One News. So I apologise for not being clearer about what I meant.
I'd also like to point out that I didn't criticise anything you posted on the site (which I read extensively before writing my post). Instead, I was taking exception with some of the other people who seemed to have an ax to grind rather than contribute information that would be truly useful to potential immigrants. It seemed to me that the more extreme posters on ExEx were every bit as guilty of doing to New Zealanders what they claimed was being done to them.
I'm not a knee-jerk, defend New Zealand without questions person. As I said in my post, I definitely see problems in New Zealand, and in Christchurch in particular. But unwarranted and scurrilous attacks are another matter entirely, and some of the posters on ExEx were guilty of that at the time, and it was that I was responding to.
Having said all that, I can certainly imagine that you were the victim on anti-Asian racism and prejudice, especially in Christchurch. New Zealand's main problems with racism are, from what I've personally seen, primarily directed against Asians (prejudice against Maori and to some extent Pacific Island people is more private). Provincial areas and, from all reports, Christchurch, seem to be especially bad. But it's everywhere, even in North Shore City where we live amidst a huge concentration of Asians. I think there are reasons why that's the case, but that's a topic unto itself.
Obviously I can't address the specific school incidents you mentioned, as I don't know the people. However, bullying in general remains a problem in New Zealand secondary schools, less so in primary schools. Some schools are better than others, of course. There are systems in place for dealing with issues like bullying, but there may be cultural barriers as well as official indifference to overcome.
In any case, I'd again like to thank you for taking the time to post your comments. I'd also like to invite you to be a guest on my podcast to talk about your experience, to present your side of the immigration story. I guarantee you a fair hearing, as I do all my guests. If you're interested, email me and we'll work something out.
Best of luck to you in your new endeavours.
Hi Arthur,
I recently came across Agness's response to comments about ExEx and wanted to clear up a couple of things.
TVNZ
No contact information was ever supplied to Rawdon Christie by me or any representative of move2nz. We have a very strict privacy policy on move2nz which has never been broken. No details are ever given out to a third party without prior approval.
I contacted Rawdon after the reports were released and he confirmed that he had advised all of the people he had spoken to at the time (including Agness) that he had easily found their information through details provided on the site or public records.
Rawdon is an investigative journalist after all and this information could be found by any 10th grader.
Address
Expat Exposed was registered as a company and as a director her address (and that of her co-founder, Ray) was part of a public record. From this record for example I can see that Agness has now resigned from the board of that company which is now run by a sole director living in the USA, but still runs "The Yellow Peril Trading Company Ltd".
Summary
As we warned Agness before ExEx was created, the website merely magnified the disillusionment of her members and has spiralled into oblivion. By comparison move2nz instead concentrates on providing completely free:
- proactive support to help people turn their migration around;
- direct assistance to people having problems;
- information for people thinking about the move on what migration and New Zealand are really like.
Action speaks louder than words and a report on our activity between January and May 2008 can be found here:
http://www.move2nz.com/downloads/move2nz_activity_report_1.pdf
This shows that in that time we actively assisted individuals and families 3,149 times.
It also confirms that we have now (from our own pockets) successfully completed two month long overseas trips (2007 and 2008) running Seminars in association with the NZ Immigration service on moving to and living in NZ, finding work and the emotional costs of migration to help prospective migrants make informed choices before getting on a plane. That is taking action to help people avoid making the wrong choices.
move2nz also won the People's Choice NetGuide Award for 'Best Community Website' in New Zealand in May this year, the longest running and most prestigious web award in NZ.
We still have not received a single cent from the NZ government or anyone else.
Thanks for a forum to be able to explain this ;o).
Mike
It seems not all is well with ExpatExposed.com. It has been identified as a scam.
http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=114678
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